Speaking of crazy, is it true that Melanie Joy is now being considered a "new welfarist" by some abolitionists after having written An Introduction to Carnism
Top Ten Carnist Phrases Or Excuses That Drive Me Crazy:
10. "I respect your personal choice, so you have to respect mine."
9. "But what would happen to all the animals otherwise?"
8. "It's not natural because you have to supplement with vitamin B12."
7. "The proof is in our teeth."
6. "Our brains wouldn't have gotten so big without meat."
5. "God said we could."
4. "But plants have feelings too!"
3. "If lions can kill gazelles..."
2. "top of the food chain"
1. "circle of life"
Obviously there are more than ten annoying excuses and phrases and no doubt you have your own favourites (let us know in the comments!), but the above ten seem to rankle me the most. Or at least, the quickest. The last two in particular really bother me because they're lazy clichés that folk frequently spew out to justify their habits so that they don't have to spend any real time contemplating why they do what they do.
For a complete dismantling of the above lame phrases and excuses (plus many more) check out Vegan Poet's comprehensive responses to typical comments so that you'll always know how to reply to those still not vegan yet. I'd do it myself, but I'm lazy too. ;)
Ack. Having trouble leaving a comment for some reason. Trying again...
I've been working on my own Top 10 Objections blog post for a while and am glad to see this one as it includes several that didn't make my list. B-12, Circle of Life, Brains? Uggggh. I've noticed that the ONLY time carnists don't come back at me with an excuse is after they have seen a video like Farm to Fridge, Earthlings or Meet Your Meat. The graphic images seem to bypass the rationalizing portions of their brains and go straight to their hearts. But I suppose once the "shock" wears off and they have a Taco Bell craving, those rationalizations might just bubble back up again. Depressing.
And for the record -- I think Melanie Joy is AMAZING. :-))
When I get the plants have feelings doodah I know I'm dealing with someone grasping for straws. :-)
I didn't come up with one to add to the list, but my mom said something once that is as close as we've come to having an argument about it (I've explained why I am the way I am and never really gotten any response). I was going through a pretty rough time and while I know she was trying to think of things to say and maybe steer my mind away from my problems, she raved about some chicken sandwich at some fast food place and said she realized I don't eat meat, "but if you ever have a weak moment".... So I wrote back and gently explained again why I am the way I am and that it truly isn't possible for me to have a weak moment in this particular area. We didn't have an argument about it and that was the end of that, but I was honestly surprised to hear that: "if you have a weak moment". I think a lot of people don't understand us at all. I think they don't realize this is something deep within us. So, this isn't really about an excuse-argument I've been confronted with, but it was surprising and depressing to hear.
I love these! Mine are all the same - Maybe in a different order.
And like VeganElder mentioned the "screaming carrots" always makes me wonder if I should continue the conversation (with an ignoramus) or... Are the plant-pain issue placed there simply to inflame? Either way - Face palm.
A variation of #9: The animals are already dead (Or) Going to die anyway. (sigh)
But - My favorite to respond to is #7 for a few reasons: I like reminding folks that humans have "cuspids" and nonhumans have canines. I also like to suggest that we try to evolve beyond our dentures. To paraphrase Colleen Patrick-Goudreau: "Do we really want to use the behavior/anatomy of the Neanderthals as the yardstick by which to measure our current moral choices?"
As far as Melanie Joy is concerned - A fantastic mind - And a lovely person! A true advocate I'm proud to have on our side of reason and compassion. A "carnist" mindset is not one that just allows the (single issue) of "food animal" use - But extends to the whole concept of "othering". Her theories are insightful, relevant and thought provoking. I don't agree with anyone who discredits her work. She's a tireless force of good for our side - ;)
"But my body needs meat". Or howbout "It tastes too good to give up"
I just want to say thank you for this site. It really is good that this site exists. Without it, more people would think buying meat is okay, which would drive the prices up.
Thanks to the vegan movement, the price of delicious bacon is kept down, meaning I can have bacon for breakfast everyday of the week. I want to thank all vegans for keeping the price of meat down. Yes, bacon truly is great and delicious.
Though there is no comparison to veal. I especially enjoy having a pregnant cow give birth directly into my sizzling pan. The taste and texture of veal that has never walked a day in its life is truly amazing. And the placenta makes a good garnish, not to mention all the vitamins it has.
I'll never be a weak minded veggitard. Meat is delicious and nutritious, blood is sweet and the flesh tender. You vegetarians are easily the weaker people if words offend you. So sad you mad but you can't convert me, I once tried a month of no meat and after a week I felt horrible, fatuiged and nausious. Eatting meat isnt a lifestyle or a public statement but essential to life. You call us brainless? I've eaten enough brains to not you're full of bullshit, the exact same bullshit that's in your kale shakes. If I could, I would eat one of every animal on this planet. Oh, and how dose it feel to be on the other side of the conversation with a pretentious fuck. Now that my rant is over I'm going to go and eat a delicious steak (medium rare) just to spite you.
Also plants make air breathable while livestock make methane that pollute it, so it seems that veggitards are the real bad guys. Save a plant eat a cow.
Annoying is that your little bitch ass thinks you're above anybody else for living however the fuck they want. So you're a faggot ass vegan? So the fuck what? Grow up, nobody gives a fuck. What's even more pathetic about your shitty little list is how you're going about attempting to convert people. Mind your own business, dickhead mother fucker.
In regards to #10:
Yes, that would be called mutual respect. What's so wrong with that? Why does that annoy you?
Other things that are not really arguments but attempts to dismiss my credibility are: ''You're just brainwashed because you spend too much time on the internet and have too much time on your hands to think about these things'',''veganism is a cult, you're too obsessed'' and the common ''there is other problems to care about like human exploitation, you can't be perfect'' and also ''what about humans''. All from my mother. ugh.