Wednesday, July 29, 2015

would we call women non-male humans?

 Of course not. It not only sounds ridiculous, it IS ridiculous. But that's how I often feel about the term non-human animals too, even though I understand why it's used, and use it on occasion myself. So this post is about how we name the beings we care about and fight for, because after seven years of being vegan it's something I still haven't been able to resolve. Obviously I'm not alone in this what-to-name-other-animals quandary, as the more-than-qualified Vegan Feminist Agitator herself wrote a brilliant post on this very topic not so long ago. And I considered linking to her post and leaving it at that because I really don't want to repeat her many good points, but, my need to muddle through this in writing with you in the hopes of finally solving this maddening linguistic conundrum proved to be stronger. Ready?

So, what do we (what do you?) call other animals when you're trying to convey that humans are animals too? Because sadly, we often forget or even actively squash our own animalness when trying to differentiate ourselves. Specifically, how do you refer to other beings who* are animals but not human animals? And how can we do this without implying that human animals are somehow superior, or the norm? Because as we know, naming is crucial in how we identify and interact with others. Naming is not neutral, is not objective, but determines from the outset how something or someone (or whether something is in fact someone) will be treated.
[* Spelling and grammar check suggested who should be that. Naturally I disagreed.] 

The problem of course with the term "non-male humans" is that it posits male humans as the norm and places female humans in the category of Other. (Now I would argue that in practice we still act as if women deviate from the norm, but at least our language reflects an ideal of treating men and women as equals.) Unfortunately, the term "non-human animals" does the same thing (in this case positing human animals as the norm), except that it doesn't sound as ludicrous. Perhaps this is because we're so used to the term, or because speciesism is ingrained enough that even vegans haven't quite outgrown our outmoded language.

Back to the question: How do we refer to other animals?

  • animals
  • non-human animals
  • humans and other animals
  • other animals 
  • beings
  • other beings
  • sentient beings
  • earthlings
  • insert your term here

Of those eight terms I try to avoid using animals as much as possible because for most folk that word excludes humans. I also try (but often fail) to avoid non-human animals for the reasons discussed above. Humans and other animals is a bit cumbersome so I tend to shorten it to other animals. I like sentient beings quite a lot, and will often use that, in addition to beings or other beings. The only term that I haven't really used even though I see it a fair bit is earthlings, not because I don't think it appropriate, but because for some odd reason (maybe I've read or watched too much sci-fi?) the word always makes me think of Martians. And I mean always, snort. 

Sadly, I slip and sometimes find myself using animals (see how ubiquitous animal use really is?) when I don't actually mean to, so I wish I could settle on one term once and for all. One term that is clear, compact, and sounds just right.

What about you? How have you solved the problem of what to call those not called Maria? ;) 

Comments

Krissa said...

I sometimes use terms like "living souls", "living beings", "our fellow creatures" and things like that. And I do say "other animals", too. I'm not in communication with a lot of people so it doesn't always come up. It comes up in comments on blogs or on petitions. The whole thing about names is very frustrating too because, as we've mentioned before, not all of us feel fond of the term vegan either. One of the things that really makes me mad is reading comments sections in news stories and seeing things written about heinous criminals like "he's an animal", "he's no better than an animal", "dogs don't even do that"....things like that. Because, really???? I've spent a vast amount of time in my 46 years with humans, with dogs, with cats, with birds and not as much, but also a lot of time with many other species (I also use species a lot, I guess) and I'll tell you what...human beings have zero reason to claim superiority. I love my family and friends and I know there are good folks out there, but as a whole, our species is the only vicious one. And the only ignorant one, too. "Other animals" are never dishonest, they show compassion and love and appreciation and often even to the human beings who don't deserve it. In fact, they show all of the good qualities that humanity likes to bestow on itself and then get those "he's an animal" comments....it's sad and wrong.

It's very important to fix this language problem, but seems like one of the ones that is very far out of control. I think I wrote before that in the German language, they don't even use the same VERBS for things like when a human eats compared to when an "animal" eats. And they are normally called "it" instead of he or she. I've noticed that he/she/it changed a bit, but only a very little. And since I've rambled so much already I'll spare the anecdotes about certain communities I've been exposed to here who I am pretty sure think of women and girls as "non-male humans". Not pretty sure, just, sure.

Well, sorry for the rambling. I had another really tough week and am not capable to express myself as clearly as I wish.

have gone vegan said in reply to Krissa...

Hi Krissa, au contraire, I think you expressed yourself quite well. And clearly. :)

Ah, you've jogged my memory! I too use "fellow creatures", "living beings" and "other species" a fair bit. They just didn't pop into my head while I was writing the post.

Oh, and those "he's no better than an animal" type comments make my blood boil too. In fact, (let me go check -- yep, it's on there) I have that very topic on my long list of things to post about, so won't go into too much detail here other than to say what you and I already know (and every other rational person should as well) -- that the very opposite is often true.

Hope this coming week is better for you! :)

Krissa said in reply to have gone vegan...

Ah, great minds, eh? :) I'm looking forward to that post you mention and I'm glad I didn't ramble as much as I thought I had. The "funny" thing is, for those of us who don't really see an inner difference between ourselves and other species, this whole language thing wouldn't be a problem. But because of the way human beings somehow manage to dominate this planet and the fact that human language is such a ...looking for the right word, not finding it, but it truly does perpetuate wrong thinking/actions (human beings' superiority complex and all the things that happen as a result), it is a very big problem. You do an excellent job of addressing these issues. My next thought in this stream of thought was going to be that as humans we see each other visually and do recognize other races and cultures, but that isn't a problem for every human...of course we all see "color", but we don't all "See" color. Ok, well now I think I did muddle it all up (snort!).

It's a fact that the spoken/written word is a wonderful thing and no species would survive without them. Because yep, "non-human animals" write in their own way too, as you and most of your readers know. Why is it that our species dominates everything and yet the majority of us can't speak or read the languages of our fellow creatures (or even think to try)....but they all clearly do understand ours?

Heat wave got started yesterday here and is about to go full blast starting today. :( So, this week isn't going to be much better in that way, but thanks for the well wishes and I'm hanging in there. Hope all's well there with you, too!

have gone vegan said in reply to Krissa...

Ha ha, muddle away! Double snort.

Good point about how other animals understand us well enough, but we seem (well, most of us) to have great difficulty understanding them. Reminds me of something I read somewhere (wish I could remember the specifics) where someone was astute enough to gently chastise folk for using the expression (or variations thereof) "giving voice to the voiceless", and accurately stating that other beings voice their concerns well enough (a scream of pain is pretty easy to understand regardless of species), but that most humans just don't want to listen. :(

Sorry about the heat wave. Ours ended earlier this week, so it's nice to have that reprieve. Hard to believe summer is slowly coasting towards the end though!

veganelder said...

I smiled when I saw this post...one reason was because I too go all over the place in trying to reference beings who aren't me and who don't belong to my species and also because I started reading a book recently that smacked me on the head about some possible reasons why this referring to "others" is such a dilemma at times. The book is titled: "Speaking Freely: Unlearning the Lies of the Fathers' Tongues" by Julia Penelope who was a linguist.

In the book she tackles the invisible and usually unacknowledged fact that english was a language constructed mostly by white men and many elements of english were put in place to implement and enforce patriarchy and hierarchy and and and. It just may be that part of the problem of trying to figure out how to use english words to describe and think about things has not so much to do with our inadequacies of conceptualizing and understanding but rather to do with the built in biases and structures and word constructions of english itself. These biases obviously can and do exist in other languages also...I would suspect the more the language is male dominated the more difficulty there is in expressing ones self without engaging in hierarchical and/or oppressive structuring.

Audre Lorde wisely observed that you can't dismantle the master's house with the master's tools...Julia Penelope did a great thing by trying to point out that the english language itself is one of the master's tools.

I got so excited when I started reading the book that I jumped on a used book site and bought myself a copy because I wanted to highlight and underline parts of it. I haven't read the whole book yet...but just the realization that "otherness" and hierarchy and patriarchy is built into the english language was so liberating that I'm still smiling about all of it.

The flim-flams and confusings that perpetuate oppression are deep and wide and ubiquitous and part of it...just maybe has to do with the fact that we try to talk about it and understand it with language tools that were devised and maintained and enforced by oppressors themselves.

Saying all this to say...it might be useful to expand the area of consideration when trying to figure out how to use words for expressing ourselves to include the often overlooked fact that english (and many other languages) were way over influenced and controlled by males to the exclusion and/or the domination of "others".

You can read a little about Dr. Penelope here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Penelope

have gone vegan said in reply to veganelder...

Hey veganelder, I'm finally back. Dr. Penelope's book sounds interesting, so thanks for the recommendation and link. I've added it to my wish list. :)

Have you read either of the two books by Joan Dunayer? Her first one, Animal Equality (2001), dealt with how language perpetuates speciesism, and she followed that up with Speciesism (2004). I have to admit I haven't read either, in part perhaps because I know she takes a dim view of any advocate whom she would view as either "welfarist" or "new speciesist" (and I suspect she would include me, even if it's inaccurate, under both labels), but they're both probably worth a read. Especially the first one as it specifically deals with language.

Unfortunately, I may have made it sound as if I didn't feel the English language is sexist (which it definitely is), but the main focus of this post was how our language is speciesist, so I'm gonna hop on over to your post and talk about the language and gender issue there. :)

veganelder said in reply to have gone vegan...

Actually I have read Ms. Dunayer's first book Animal Equality. I read it some time ago since it is held in the stacks of our local library.

I'm old enough to remember quite well the furor that arose when feminist scholars first raised objections to the sexist structuring (and usage) of the English language. Dr. Penelope's book is much more academic and detailed than Ms. Dunayer's effort. Thanks for the tip though. :-)

veganelder said...

Your post was so stimulating and inspirational that I had to write about it and about this whole language thingee. Thank you. http://veganelder.blogspot.com/2015/08/do-yourself-favor.html

have gone vegan said in reply to veganelder...

Aw, thank YOU! I love it when blog posts can be springboards for others, as yours often are for me. By the way, just the other day I ran across an old word document titled "veganelder's awesome column" which I wanted to respond to in more detail, and plan on still doing sometime. Yes! Very late (the post was back in 2011, snort) but I'm sure I'll be springboarding it at some point. ;)

Have to dash off for now, but will respond to your comment above and to your own blog post in the next day or two.

Hi Friend,

Your posts are so thought provoking and leave me puzzling and puzzling about what I think. But that is a good thing. Carry on!

Language is so important and I focus on it quite often on my website.
The issue of calling others "others" because we consider ourselves to be the norm or superior is an interesting one. We can not do other than come from our own perspective using the limitations of the language we speak, but this does not necessarily mean that we, as individuals, consider our perspective to be the norm or superior. Many do of course and I have been subject to many put downs over the interpretation of a word. The latest was yesterday when I was showing our new home to a male friend of ours.(I use the term loosely) When I showed him "my" office he laughed and said, "Your office? You have a job? All right then." - all said in what was a sarcastic tone. He knows after all these years that when I am silent, I am actually saying to the universe and to him that he is one of the biggest idiots(fill in the blanks: Ass..les) that I know. And I was silent in this instance.

So, he and I greatly dispute the definition of the word job. One does not have to be paid for one's work to have said work be valuable. In fact some of the most valuable work and jobs in my opinion are volunteer. Never mind that his is a double put down. I would bet the farm that my "friend" would never have said this to another man - No sireee bobberoonie.

So, I do have a point and I am going to get to it. I try, to the best of my ability and depending on the context,to choose the correct reference for species other than human. I will use beings, fellow beings, furry companions, non human animals(although less and less now) and sometimes animals when I am including humans in the mix. Dr Will Tuttle often says "fellow mortals" which I kind of like. I never use the word pet anymore and I don't refer to myself as the owner of a pet. Farm animals are farmed animals.

The second part of this equation, which I feel is as important as the language itself, is how I say whatever I am saying. If I use any of the words I choose with reverence and respect then the shortcomings inherent in the word itself become less significant. I deplore the disrespect shown to all species through language and labels, but I do try to inform, educate and encourage people to be more circumspect in their choice of words.

Take care friend.
Anne

Hi Anne, puzzling and puzzling -- thank you for the compliment! :)

That male visitor to your house sounds like an idiot alright. And don't get me started on all the work done by women (most volunteers are women I believe) that's routinely discounted by either being unpaid or underpaid. Our society profits mightily from all the caregiving women do for both children and seniors, most (if not all) of which is unpaid. In fact, any work seen as something women should do tends to automatically be undervalued. This is ridiculous in my opinion, as many women can actually be said to have three shifts of labour: any paid or volunteer work, work within the home or with family, and finally, the work of proving you're female/feminine enough e.g. personal grooming, makeup, etc. Like I said, don't get me started. ;)

I like fellow beings and fellow mortals! And while I sometimes slip and use the term "pet" instead of animal companion, I do make sure to use the term guardian instead of owner.

Your point of using respect and reverence when speaking is a great one, and yes, its importance is probably often overlooked. Thanks for bringing it up. :)

Tuesday, July 7, 2015

would it really be so bad if the human species became extinct?

 And if the answer is yes, then why are we working so hard to achieve exactly that?

The graphic in a previous post shows how different species will gradually disappear (or not so gradually given that nearly 1000 species have gone extinct in the past 500 years already) if we don't change our ways soon. Because while past mass extinctions occurred primarily due to natural causes, one species in large part is causing the current ecosystem crisis. Poaching, habitat destruction, global warming and excessive use of water (even if you're not ethically opposed to eating other animals, from a water use point of view alone animal agriculture needs to be scraped off our plates already) all contribute to the demise of fellow species.

Now let's say you actually don't care about other species dying off and are only concerned with human survival. Then wouldn't it be ironic if the species thought to be the most intelligent became extinct due to its own stupidity? Because that's exactly the driving force (that, and greed) threatening to drive us off this planet. 

What's fascinating though is that while other species could function just fine or even better without Homo sapiens, our species is fragile enough that our very existence depends on the beings we consider vastly inferior to ourselves. Like bees. And bats. Imagine that! We need bees and bats (among others) to survive, so perhaps it's time to put aside our smug superiority complex and realize we're not only risking the extinction of other species, but of ourselves as well. Let's be clear: humans need this earth if they want to survive, Earth does not need us.

Going back to the title question, I have to admit there are times when I feel human extinction would be an overall gain for the rest of the species co-habiting our lovely planet. That sentiment could certainly be construed as misanthropic, but our species is so anthropocentric that overall we don't seem to give a damn about how much cruelty and death we inflict on others, and on darker days I feel it would serve us exactly right to get a taste of our own bitter medicine. So, let's get our collective act together and behave in ways that would make human extinction a true tragedy for all species. Agreed? 

Note: Watched the 2007 documentary The 11th Hour after drafting this post, and even though the many experts offered excellent ideas, it was striking that none of them mentioned animal consumption. To be fair there were two images of factory farming in the film, but no one actually said, let's stop eating animals. Disappointing, but not surprising. Guess I'll have to watch Cowspiracy for that!

Comments

veganelder said...

I second your statement: "So, let's get our collective act together and behave in ways that would make human extinction a true tragedy for all species." I'm sort of wobbly about whether that's anywhere on the horizon though.

I would urge some consideration of whether the issue of human driven planetary destruction isn't more properly attributed to human societies infected by western European colonial/capitalist mindsets and dynamics. For instance the destruction of the Amazon rainforest isn't being implemented by the human tribes indigenous to that area...rather it is being driven by those humans infected with the western European mindset seeking "profit" by clearing the rainforest for animal agriculture. If I look around the globe...most (not all, but most) locales where environmental destruction is horrendous are those where the colonial view of mother Earth as a "resource" holds sway.

That way of destructive thinking about mother Earth and her Earthlings is not ubiquitous...it is endemic to western European ideologically infected cultures. I'm starting to wonder if I don't paint with too broad a brush if I am repulsed by all human animals. Maybe I would be wiser to focus on the most virulent (in terms of destructiveness) of human cultural groupings...that of the western European ilk.

I wonder about that...more and more.

Your observation about the documentary "The 11th Hour" is reminiscent of my previous observation about books which purport to be about concern or "truths" about our sister/brother Earthlings but avoid embracing and/or encouraging the vegan philosophy...well...whether book or documentary...they end up sounding sort of stupid and deluded.

In the end, I wonder how effective it might be in terms of halting the awfulness, to appeal to "self-interest", when that very same self-interest dynamic seems to be what is creating the problem in the first place. Seems paradoxical, eh? To appeal to narcissistic interests to interrupt narcissistic driven behaviors....almost sounds like trying to solve a problem with the same kind of thinking that created the problem...doesn't it?

have gone vegan said in reply to veganelder...

....almost sounds like trying to solve a problem with the same kind of thinking that created the problem...doesn't it?

Yep, it does indeed. Now if we could only figure out how to change thinking/behaving and preferably quickly and permanently to boot. Sadly though, a part of me feels that if enough people go vegan to make a real difference, it'll likely be because they don't have a choice. Whatever will be left of both natural and man-made resources will necessitate plant-based living even if vegan ethics aren't the primary reason. Hoping I'm wrong though!

And you're likely quite right that sweeping generalizations about the entire human species may not be called for. It's the profit-even-at-the-cost-of-everything-else mindset that we need to eradicate. How can human animals be so smart and yet so stupid at the same time? :(

Debra Roppolo said...

I have to agree with you: humans are without question the worst thing that has ever happened to this planet. We have done nothing that has improved it one iota. (I figure my misanthropy balances the anthropocentrism of the majority.) Extinction of our species would be the best thing for every other species.

have gone vegan said in reply to Debra Roppolo...

Can't say I disagree with anything you said. Wish I could, but I can't. Sigh.

Hi Friend,

Wouldn't ya know it: My most recent post is penned by a veganic farming friend of mine who presented some pretty scare statistics about our water and land usage in non human animal agriculture.
It takes one acre of land to feed 156 people an eight ounce portion of cooked flesh. The same acre of land will feed 14,600 people the same size portion of beans and rice. It takes 100 gallons of water to produce 4 ounces of dried rice and beans and a whopping 1085 gallons to produce 10 ounces of raw ground beef.

I have often said to people that the earth has no real use for humans and that we are destroying it at an alarming rate - all for the almighty dollar, for status, for power and because we can.

I have to agree with veganelder that western imperialism is largely responsible for this decline. Indigenous peoples lived side by side with nature for centuries

We are guilty of living unconsciously and grossly overestimating our value to mother earth and other species.

I have a vested interest in wanting humans to survive the holocaust we are creating for ourselves, other than that of eliminating the human induced suffering of other species. Simply put, I would like my children and especially my grandchildren to carry on and live in a world of which we all could be proud- a world of kindness, compassion and respect.

Cowspiracy is a fantastic doc that that everyone needs to see and to consider. Log onto my website and comment on my post "Answering the Question, "Why Are you vegan?'. I am having a Giveaway. If you win an would like to receive this doc, let me know.
Take care,
Respectfully,
Anne

I read that post! Quite impressive. I mean, scary stats, but maybe that'll wake up those who need further convincing.

Boy, I sure wish more folk had the same vested interest that you do. And it puzzles me to no end that more of them don't. You would think that people with kids and grandkids would be even more appalled by the state of the world they're leaving for them, but overall they don't seem to be at all. It's like I don't understand how anyone who has a daughter or granddaughter can claim not to support women's rights. Makes no sense to me whatsoever. You don't want equality for them, when your role would seem to dictate that you would want the best for them? Don't get it. Nope, not at all.

I have the Cowspiracy doc myself, but hope that many people enter your Giveaway! Some fabulous prizes for sure. Nice of you to do! :)

Krissa said...

This is such a great post! I'm getting over the worst flu I've had in years and still not up to par so my comment won't do it justice. It's something I think about a lot, how much different (better) life would be for other species if we'd never been here. I'm not sure what would happen to the unfortunate ones we've forced to become dependent on us....they'd most likely survive in small numbers from their captivity situations and then once free, re-establish themselves. Our species as a whole is so arrogant. And I used to like to give the benefit of the doubt and think it's largely ignorance, which some of it is, but we truly are so ridiculous as to believe that we're "above" bees and bats to use the examples you've given.

I got this link inside a newsletter I got a few weeks ago, can't remember which group, but it's interesting and on topic so I hope it's ok to add it here. I'll look into Cowspiracy, but have a feeling it might be one of the ones that knocks me down emotionally. ... But yep, I think it would serve our species as a whole right also to find out what it's like to suffer the fates we've subjected so many others to even though there are individuals who I don't want to suffer, but....ours is the one species that can honestly be said about, whatever happens to us, our fate...we deserve.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jun/21/mass-extinction-science-warning

have gone vegan said in reply to Krissa...

Hey Krissa, hope you're completely flu-free fast!

And thanks for adding the link. Interesting indeed. I really wish the human species would stop being so complacent about our home and the fellow beings we share it with, and hopefully articles like the one you linked to will help all of us to wake up already.

Saturday, June 20, 2015

some thoughts on fathering

 Can't believe it's been nearly a year already since my dad passed away, and that he won't be around this Father's Day. Although, to be honest, he wasn't around much period while his five kids were growing up, and made no secret of the fact that he had zero interest in parenting. (In case you think I'm exaggerating, each one of my siblings grew up being told that he would leave as soon as they turned 16, and he finally made good on his promise when my turn as the youngest came around.) In spite of this, three of my siblings and I had made some sort of peace with him before he died, and accepted his lack of involvement in our lives as something that wasn't to be taken too personally. A good role model for being a father he wasn't, but it could have been worse.

So with Father's Day around the corner (tomorrow!), and my post on mothering just behind me, I thought I'd take some time and continue talking about parenting. If, as I argued in my previous post, mothering is a role we don't really value, then fathering is a role valued even less. Sure, we pay lip service to the idea of celebrating the role of fatherhood, but even the holiday itself isn't emphasized as much as its counterpart.

Understandable, as regrettably, raising the next generation is still often thought of as women's work. Consider again that most men won't have to figure out how they'll combine work with child rearing, won't get asked how they'll accomplish that feat, and won't have to deal with the consequences of taking time out of the labour force to raise their kids if that's their choice. But that career comes first for men is still a given for most.  

As I also stated in the mothering post, the qualities of being a good parent -- nurturing, protecting, guiding, etc., are not, in my opinion, gender specific, and I think it's a shame that we've allowed outdated stereotypes to determine parenting roles. I've long felt that a mature and healthy adult is, for example, strong and sensitive, caring and assertive, rational and warm, empathetic and independent, and to label any of those traits as either masculine or feminine is both silly and limiting.

In that sense, I don't think a child needs both a mother and a father as claimed by those who champion traditional family values, as much as they need an adult in their lives who has the full range of qualities that every grown-up should have. Where it's helpful to have two adults involved in child-rearing is that it lessens the load, and hopefully provides a role model of what a positive relationship can look like. But whether those two adults are of the same gender or not is irrelevant, and I can tell you from personal experience that my own particular family would have been much better off if it had been "broken" far sooner.

And if mothering and fathering doesn't get the status it deserves among humans, then the industrial agricultural complex pretty much strips any status for other species. No respect is given to the natural bonds of motherhood and fatherhood, and parenthood is only valued if it benefits humans. Think puppy mills, zoos, aquariums, and of course all the victims considered food animals. A depressing thought indeed.

So once again I want to end with a reference to two of my favourite human dads, who daily give me hope, and who beautifully illustrate what fatherhood could and should be all about. :)

Comments

Hi Friend,
So sorry to hear that your father was not present for you when you were growing up and beyond. By now you know that I do not have fond feelings for the man who called me his father. He demanded respect from us rather than trying to earn it. He was domineering, cruel, unloving, demanding, physically and emotionally abusive to us, our mother and nonhuman animal companions.....And yet he could be kind on occasion. I could never understand this. Knowing that he could be kind made me feel guilty about hating him until my daughter and sister both said to me that he was a bad man who occasionally did good things. This still did not make him a good man. I felt strangely better after that.
The way we view fatherhood in this society can be strange. I am a child of the fifties, a time in which there were very strict rules about who did what in the family. So, I am not sure how much this has affected our current view of mothering and fathering. I do know that my husband did many more things with and for our children than his own father and that my son in law is involved much more in his children's lives than his own father was.
This may be a function of both parents working outside the home in today's oh so busy society-the chores, duties and responsibilities simply have to be divided more equitably. But I do think the attitude that raising the kids is the mother's job will take a little longer to change.
As to whether or not a mother's love is in thought and deed deeper than that of a father's, I have no clue! I had a terrible father and am not a father myself. I watched and benefitted from the love of my mother and I know how much I love my own kids.
I am reading a book entitled, "When Elephants Weep" by Jeffrey Moussaieff Masson. It is about the emotional lives of other species. In it he gives examples of fatherly love from marmosets, owl monkeys, beavers and the kiwi, ranging from slight to intense devotion. He states that this occurs about ten percent of the time. Humans are animals. Where we fit in and how we fit in to this equation is a mystery to me. Certainly many more than ten percent of human fathers love their children deeply and care for them and would protect them with their own lives.
No question that using nonhumans for our own purposes in the cruelest of ways deprives them of the right to live in emotional freedom, to love their families, to choose how to love and rear their own children. What we as species are doing to our brethren is unconscionable.
Many thanks for posting.
Anne

Hi Anne, although my father wasn't a great dad, we were still fortunate that he was physically and emotionally absent rather than abusive, and in a sense we suffered more harm from the parent who was present, but nonetheless managed to grow up without getting too screwed up. Then again, that may have been a generational thing as well, as I don't think parenting was as scrutinized as it is today.

I, in turn, am sorry for the suffering your father inflicted on you, your siblings, your mom, and household companions. He was not a nice man, and I think your daughter's and sister's summation of him sounds spot on.

Strides have been made, thankfully, in the way younger generations parent, and I hope that gender equality (although still far off) will continue to make inroads on institutions like the family.

I'll have to read that book! Beyond knowing that male seahorses are the ones to give birth and that male penguins take care of the eggs, I really don't know enough about male parenting styles among other species. Perhaps some of them would even put male human parenting to shame? :)

Hi Friend,

Families can be complicated organisms.
"When Elephants Weep" is an interesting, informative and important book. Too bad that it takes studies and a book like this to point out the obvious:that other species have emotions on which they act.
We seem to see it and accept it in our animal companions but are loathe to admit that cows, pigs, orangutans and so on have feelings,feel joy, grieve, are capricious, fun loving and grumpy. If we recognize and accept this we will have to change the way we use and treat them. As I said in my latest post, "Give these beings back to their families".
Take care,
Anne

I think If we recognize and accept this we will have to change the way we use and treat them hits the nail on the head, and may be why so many people would rather not look at the issue too closely.

Krissa said...

I "knew" it was Esther's dads!!! :) ... I had to think back over the years to make sure I'm not wrong about this and I don't think I am. The only family of non-human animals that I've ever personally witnessed with both mother, father and babies are the sheep at the place I visit that I've mentioned before. And while the babies did used to more often than not stay closer to their mother, they definitely are close with their father too and you can really see that they're a little family who love each other. They aren't living a natural life by any means, but at least they weren't ripped apart when the babies were just-born or younger. Seeing them together is a special thing and I'm glad for them that they have each other. :)

have gone vegan said in reply to Krissa...

Ha ha, of course! :)

Yeah, I'm glad their sanctuary is host to a bunch of families -- April and her 5 piglets, William, Catherine and George the goats, the chickens who adopted their own chick, and bonded friends (the big pigs, horse and donkey) who were allowed to come together instead of being separated. It's a happy place, and a space that gives me hope.

veganelder said...

Great post. You will likely enjoy the writing about this topic over on the VINE sanctuary blog. (http://blog.bravebirds.org/archives/1394)

Fathering...Mothering...it's tricky stuff. My sisters thought our father was terrific...I had a more ambivalent take on him.

Your post made me think of the title of a book by Bruno Bettelheim...it's called "A Good Enough Parent"...maybe that's the best we can hope for and anything beyond that is a gift.

Most relationships are not "terrific" and in the end...parenting is about being in a relationship...one of unequal power. That's the kind of thing we human animals seem to have serious difficulties with...at least in Euro-American societies.

Like I said...parenting is tricky stuff.

have gone vegan said in reply to veganelder...

Hi veganelder, I DID enjoy that post, immensely, and pattrice's brilliance never fails to disappoint me. Can't wait for their own press to become reality.

I love how she questions the automatic assumptions that are made, and shows so clearly the underpinning patriarchal mechanisms at play. I wish I had her gift of illumination! And communication. :)

Ha, just saw that you referenced her writing in your "didn't do a post" post, and will go back there a bit later to comment, and hopefully catch up with the rest of your musings... see you then!