Sunday, April 6, 2014

why aren't more Christians vegan?

 Christian vegan bumper sticker

A good question indeed and the title of New Vegan Age's essay challenging Christians to consider going vegan. Now, we actually discussed this piece while it was being written, and there were a few things I would have liked to see in it which do not appear, and a couple of things that I actually disagree with. So, closer to Easter, I'll be giving you my own take on why more Christians aren't vegan, but please do read Tom's essay here. 

In the meantime, I'm also working on: an expansion of a discussion I had with veganelder about finding a new category for animals in the property vs. person debate (for those of you who don't read the comments, tsk tsk -- you know who you are -- that's where some of the interesting stuff really happens), a resurrection of sorts (eek, bad Easter joke) of the paradox of being vegan series, white privilege, human privilege, and all sorts of privilege (also originating from a comment), the deceptively titled "one thing you can do to help veganism", and the most striking sentence I read last year.

Whew! I'm gonna be busy, but luckily I have much less time on my hands these days, which oddly enough has resulted in my being that much more focused. So, stay tuned!

Comments

Krissa said...

Ugh, this is the 4th re-write about the Christianity part. I'm going to just say that I think it comes down to ignorance regardless of how sincere someone is in their beliefs or not. Apathy and ignorance. And by ignorance I don't mean stupidity, I mean simply ignorant - often by choice. This can hold true for anyone of any religion and I'll leave it at that.

I'm not much help in the property vs. person debate. I understand it logically and I realize that the vast majority of humans don't share most of us who are vegan's views and feelings. But personally, I consider every fellow living creature a friend and an equal, just different. As for 'my' two cats, they are my family first and I am their guardian (because obviously they don't get a say in where we live, what they eat, etc.) and I do my very best for them. I realize that in this world, other animals are not our 'equals' because of the place we've made them occupy in this world, but for me personally, they are my friends. "Animals" like birds and squirrels who live in the city that I call home, when I pass through THEIR home, I am respectful of that and treat it as such. If I ever come up with a thought that is useful for the majority of the population in the property vs. person debate, I will share it.

So glad you're getting to post more often! :)

have gone vegan said in reply to Krissa...

Ha, I'm going to go backwards in my reply here.

First, thanks for the vote of confidence, although you may want to reserve judgment until you read said posts, snort.

I'm sure your thoughts will be very useful when I post the property vs. persons category idea, and I'm looking forward to it.

I like your attitude towards birds and squirrels and their homes. Because we often forget that we're intruding onto THEIR space with our never-ending development, and dangerous glass buildings (the numbers of birds killed by flying into office windows is staggering), and then we're surprised by the appearance of deer, coyotes, etc., and call them a nuisance?

Sorry for having to do rewrites. Christianity can do that to you, snort. Sorry, Tom, if you're reading this, cuz you know I'm kidding, right? Ignorance might be true for some, but I think it's more than that, or maybe not quite that, for most, but will try to explain/expand in future post. :)

krissa said in reply to have gone vegan...

Also in case your friend Tom is reading, I did try to post a comment to thank him for that essay and that I hope it will make many people sincerely consider and pray on it because I think if they do it will start some folks on the path to becoming vegan. It was well-written and interesting.

Your point about the glass buildings brings back a memory from before I was even vegan. Nick and I were walking to the store and had to pass by a very big all glass front building that was on our block and a bird had smacked into it and was doing very badly and on a busy sidewalk. I didn't believe I could save him, but wanted to try. I didn't want to traumatize him too much further so I stood on the sidewalk and protected and shaded him and Nick ran back and got a box and put a soft cloth and some grass and sticks in it. We carried him so carefully in the box, but about half way down the block when I checked on him, he had died. I was crying so hard on the street and we took him back and put him way under a bush where I hoped his little body wouldn't get disturbed. Sorry for the sad story, but it's something that many people just don't "get" and walk right past. You should see how long it takes me to go anywhere when it rains because I have to move all the snails and worms off the sidewalks and bike paths. Ha. But I simply just can't walk past. Anyway, sorry for rambling in the comments and for a sad story, but it's another part of being vegan that is so important....to figure out how to lessen our impact in ways that are normally overlooked.

I consider myself to have been ignorant in the past of the suffering. And as you know, I was raised in a strict Christian household. I didn't word that very well in the first comment, I think. I mean ignorance to the suffering and also, sadly, apathy to the suffering.

Ok, sorry for the long-winded 2nd comment!!!

have gone vegan said in reply to krissa...

Aw, poor birdie. But at least you provided them with a bit of dignity and a more respectful resting place. Yes, I can see you moving snails and worms! :)

Ignorance (as in just not knowing), is more excusable as there's so much that keeps people in the dark. Apathy, bothers me a lot more. It's kind of a double sin if you know what I mean.

Tom said...

Thank you AGAIN for helping to develop and seriously improve this essay! Like Krissa, I'm glad you're getting to post more often these days—and I'm looking forward to reading your own take on this issue soon. Oh, and omissions from the final version did not necessarily indicate disagreement :-]

have gone vegan said in reply to Tom...

No problem, I enjoyed doing it!

I think my own take will likely require a fair bit of editing, so I guess I had better get going. And if it ends up being a bit harsh, maybe I'll warn you beforehand. Yeah, some of the stuff we both agreed on did not appear, but I just want to make sure it shows up somewhere. Looking forward in advance to any agreement, disagreement or indifference you may have to offer. ;)

Bea Elliott said...

That is a very good question and of course I only have some hunches as to why more Christians and other religious sects aren't vegan... My guess is that there's much in religious scripture and ancient texts that actually "permit" man's use of "everything" and every creature. There's a hierarchical model that's been used to justify every type of domination... The patriarchy from whence "man" is over all is deeply rooted in a deity who has assigned us each with "his" purpose. And when anything doesn't make much sense, most dismiss it with "We cannot know or question God's ways". So if nonhumans must suffer to become the meat that is "allowed" to us... Well, who are we to question? And then too there's always the closing remark to me when I challenge why nonhumans aren't treated kindly (by Christians). I'm told flat out "They don't have a soul". And then I can't go any further without challenging their faith. It's a tough topic indeed.

I would love it if more people were less religious and more spiritual. I don't know that Ahimsa could ever be molded into or mistaken as dominion. This topic gives a whole new meaning to the Easter ham and likewise to what is halal. :'(

have gone vegan said in reply to Bea Elliott...

Good question and tough topic indeed. But you've provided quite a few clues as to what my take will look like. Looks like we're in sync here! :)

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Thursday, April 3, 2014

pick a pitch, any pitch ;)

 As you know, I've been playing with elevator pitches of late, and I've concluded that I may need as many pitches as there are circumstances, snort. And while I still like the last one I came up with, I'm thinking now that it's just too general. What I really want to convey right away is the WHO of my concern, so I've decided that I'm vegan because I don't want to support animal cruelty might just be more on the mark.

Obviously, as a vegan, I don't support animal use either, but since other vegans aren't going to be asking me why I'm vegan, I need to tailor the message to the audience. So, depending on whom I'm speaking to, I want a variety of pitches handy but with the focus being on other beings rather than health or environment. Therefore, future pitches might include:

  • I'm vegan because I don't believe in violence
  • I'm vegan because I don't want to support animal cruelty
  • I'm vegan because I don't want to contribute to animal exploitation
  • I'm vegan because I believe in justice for all beings
  • I'm vegan because it's the right thing to do
  • I'm vegan because it's the Christian thing to do
    (when speaking to Christians for example)
  • I'm vegan because... What about you? What pitches do you use or prefer?
  • I'm vegan because I can't NOT be vegan (Tom's line in comment below -- thanks!)

Cat_vegan

Comments

krissa said...

That cartoon is cute. :) ... For me it's all about the fact that I love and feel connected to our fellow creatures too much to participate in hurting them in any way.

have gone vegan said in reply to krissa...

Cartoons that are cute AND vegan -- what could be better? ;)

veganelder said...

I like the justice thingee...but mostly I like the who notion. :-) All of these are good.

have gone vegan said in reply to veganelder...

Yeah, WHO is important. Especially since the beings vegans consider to be whom are usually and erroneously regarded as what by most others. So who should take precedence over what. :)

Tom said...

This is a great project! It's not an easy thing to summarize. The problem with the first four suggestions, I think, is that non-vegans don't think they believe in violence, or animal cruelty, or contribute to exploitation; they also are likely to believe in justice. "Right thing to do" and "Christian thing to do" will only raise most people's defenses, which is fine, but it won't win any sympathy or converts. Sorry. I'm having a bad day today :-[

I do like the double meaning of Lee Hall's Twitter tagline, which is a kind of pitch: "I'm vegan for life."

The only tagline I've come up with myself is an adaptation of what I've heard some writers say about writing—they "can't not write"—"I can't not be vegan." But that's not a pitch, only a statement. When asked directly why I'm vegan, which almost never happens, I usually say "I'm vegan for the animals."

have gone vegan said in reply to Tom...

Sorry you're having a bad day, Tom. But as you know, we both tend to value questions over answers, and agree that people who disagree with our views help keep us on our toes. :)

So thanks for chiming in! I think you're right about the first four pitches, but I actually see the "problem" as being the beauty of them all. In a sense they're provocative pitches, but I want people to think, hey, I don't believe in violence, cruelty, etc., and have them spin their wheels for a bit. If a pitch can make them think, instead of having it go in one ear and out the other, then all the better methinks!

As for the last two, yeah, I would probably use them when I'm feeling a bit pissy and annoyed, and it definitely wouldn't garner much sympathy or support. But that's the thing. Just because I'm vegan now doesn't mean that my competitive streak (I like winning) or judgmentalness (I often DO think that I'm right) has waned much, snort. And in that sense being vegan ain't easy, double snort.

It may be a statement instead of a pitch, but I really like the "I can't not be" line. In fact, I like it so much that I may just totally steal it from you! Yep, I'm going to, and will add it to the list above. Thanks Tom! :)

krissa said...

Just thought of something about this post which underlines the need for carrying around pamphlets. Now of course, people like the family member of mine I've told you about wouldn't be moved, but then again people like them don't ask or care why someone is vegan. If someone cares enough to ask, it might be good to have a pamphlet or some kind of handout showing and explaining (in as much detail but without being long because most people won't read something long) the cruelty inherent in farming, research, circuses, fashion (again, too many and they won't stick with reading/looking at it all) But something like that.

I'm not sure how many people who ask (I have never been asked why by anyone other than one person I'm back in touch with after years of losing track) "why" really care and don't have a preconceived notion and are already mentally arguing in their mind as they ask. But I do think that our fellow animals have more power to persuade than we do when given the chance and the voice to do so.

I've told the people in my family and the few friends I have "why" I'm vegan even though they didn't ask, but strangers here never ask why. And it's like I'd mentioned before, here it's generally given that it's an "animal rights" decision. It's slowly also being seen as a diet decision, though. :(

have gone vegan said in reply to krissa...

Hey Krissa, you're so right about having pamphlets ready. Much better to give a pitch and then be able to say, here, if you'd like some more information, or, this info explains my position better than I can, or something to that effect.

That way it gives them facts to read rather than what they may perceive to be a personal opinion, plus it gives them the chance to read and think about it at their own pace and in their own time. A little less confrontational perhaps?

Thank you so much for reminding me of this! I really REALLY need to order a bunch. And there's quite a few out there, so you can easily tailor the info to your audience. Yes, it'd be super handy to have a variety of pamphlets available. Thanks again for the reminder. :)

Krissa said...

Yeah, I couldn't believe it yesterday morning when I was thinking about this post of yours and was like "DUH!". Even though no one here asks why, I could still have some (from PETA probably, but I can also check the Tierschutz) and leave them in public places and also if by chance one day anyone asks "why", I can have something ready.

Since I 'became' vegan, I've always believed that our fellow creatures who suffer so much because of us humans are their own best spokespersons, but they don't get the chance to speak most of the time without our help. Thanks for bringing up this great topic!

have gone vegan said in reply to Krissa...

Do most people in Germany know some English as well? (I know in Holland a lot of folk are fairly fluent.) Because then you could probably easily order pamphlets online from places like Vegan Outreach, for example.

Yes, animals in pictures likely do a better job of persuading than supposedly superior humans could. :)

Bea Elliott said...

I also try never to enter any public space without my loaded "arsenal" of pamphlets. It's a must have accessory - preferably in a see-through bag! :)

I don't get asked often either why I'm vegan - even when I wear the "ask me why" tee. But I get my foot in any which way I can. For instance if these folks have a dog or cat around, I'll lavish some attention on their fur-companions and then say something like "It always makes me sad when I think about how wonderful we treat our pets and how sorry the lives of other animals are". Of course then they want to know what I mean --- And so there's my in.

Sometimes it's diet or health related... Or the environment - There's good reason to be vegan there too. And sometimes, it's just someone who seems to enjoy experimenting with different cuisine --- Someone who just loves to cook. I'll mention seitan or quinoa and that perks their interest to try new a new dish. It all depends. And yes... Even as a non-theist I pitch the Christian values too - Kindness is nondenominational and universal isn't it?

But... Getting back to your list. The top reason of mine is the first in your group. I don't believe in violence. But there is the caveat of "unjustifiable" violence or preventable violence. I adamantly reject using force on others when there are ways it can be avoided. Trouble is in our culture very few fully realize the violence and harm on their plates... They make it so easy to disguise it.

Keep at your pitching and re-thinking better methods of advocacy. It all matters. ;)

have gone vegan said in reply to Bea Elliott...

Thanks for all the great ideas on how to get those conversations rolling. I'll have to remember them when I'm out walking, or shopping in the grocery store. Speaking of which, I love it when someone in the checkout line is nosy and asks me about something I'm buying as that's an easy way for me to start one of my spiels! :)

Yep, the violence is so cleverly (malevolently?) disguised. Even more reason for that (the more transparent the better) bag of pamphlets. That's really part of our job: peeling away the layers of deception. And even if others won't listen, at least they can't claim they didn't hear.

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Sunday, March 16, 2014

what I need to remember before judging too quickly

 Because I'd like everyone to go vegan RIGHT NOW, and can't understand the apathy and complacency of those who still eat animals. Especially if they've been exposed to at least some of the facts of animal agriculture. And because being vegan is so my normal, and so the world I've inhabited for more than five years, I want others to hurry up and get there already. But it may be wise for me to remember the following:

  • I didn't become vegan until I was 46
  • while I knew in grade school that the idea of animals performing stupid tricks for humans in circuses or aquarium amusement parks made me uncomfortable and sad, I couldn't really put into words why
  • in my early 20s I scoffed at a friend's sister becoming vegetarian because eliminating certain food products didn't make any sense to me if you weren't going to eliminate ALL animal-derived substances whether they be food, clothing, toothpaste or anything else, and of course, that was impossible
  • I had no idea at the time that the concept I was referring to was called veganism, and was much more possible than I imagined
  • when in my late 30s I actually ran across the term vegan, I too, asked what those weird vegans ate if they didn't eat meat, eggs, or dairy
  • when in my early 40s I was horrified one night by seeing a cat skinned and boiled alive on a TV documentary program and began to wonder how people decide what animals to eat and what ones to love, I found it too painful to contemplate for long, and put it out of my head for another couple of years
  • that it was only when I viewed an online video on factory farming (I don't even remember which one), that things finally went click, click, click...

So if it took me that long before I could even see, let alone connect, the numerous dots, then perhaps I need to practice the skill of patience and not demand that others become wise in far less time than I did?

Comments

Krissa said...

Good points. I've had to remind myself, too, how long it took me to actually get it even though I considered myself an "animal" lover my whole life.

Sometimes when I look back at how long it took me to get it when I should have, I can't understand why that was. You might remember, I was cruelty-free and didn't eat any animal products other than eggs and didn't wear animal products...I did believe the "kein Ei mit drei" campaign here (eggs are numbered 0-3 and 3 are supposedly the cruel ones, when in fact, they ALL are. But why I believed it, I'll never know. My cow friend is what got me to finally give up eggs and I know you remember that. But it did take so long. So yes, I guess we do have to have patience for others because there was a time where most of us vegans really didn't have a valid excuse at all for continuing the way we did either.

Sorry if this was rambling, my computer/internet is having problems and I've had to re-connect in the middle of this a few times. Grrr.

have gone vegan said in reply to Krissa...

Hey Krissa, sorry to hear of your computer woes, but no, you weren't rambling at all. And yeah, looking back it can be hard to see why we didn't see what we see so clearly now! It's more than hindsight, that's for sure.

But as veganelder eloquently states below, we mistakenly tend to think of change as an event rather than a process, and we don't tend to like change all that much.

veganelder said...

It is very difficult to apprehend and to remain persistently aware that "change" is often (always?) a process and not an event. Internal perceptions, assumptions, understandings, and meanings must all be configured in a "just so" way in order for "change" to occur. Often an "aha" moment is preceded by minutes, hours, days, months and sometimes years of large and small restructurings, factual intakes and experiential happenings. Motivation too plays a very very consequential role in this process.

Change can be disturbing and painful as well as exciting and exhilarating. Change can be frightening, even terrifying. Courage is no small element in many "change" processes.

Most, if not all, adults who "change" to a vegan outlook struggle with a few, some or all of the aforementioned phenomena. Makes ya wonder if maybe the question isn't why someone doesn't change but rather why someone does?

I'll shut up.

Thank you for your changing. :-)

have gone vegan said in reply to veganelder...

Good summation of change! I always quip that it took me 46 years to go vegan overnight, but as you say, it's really an accumulation of moments and insights and shifts. Change may look instantaneous, but it's a process, even when we don't recognize it.

Yep, amazing any of us manage to change at all given our almost innate reluctance.

And no, don't ever shut up on my account. ;)

Bea Elliott said...

Thank you for sharing with us the account of the processes you went through... I was a vegetarian (way back) when I was a teen. And then I got side-tracked with career, relationships and all the conveniences/compromises that I thought would make my life complete. For decades without guilt, I shrugged my shoulders with the excuse that "they" were dead already. And truthfully in my head they all just "died" from old age. I'm embarrassed to say this now, but I think it proves how relatively intelligent people avoid judging even themselves.

Lately I too am having a shift that requires adding patience to my tool-kit-for-change. I'm trying hard not to get attached to the outcome and am satisfied for the opportunity to plant seeds. They say it takes six generations for an idea to take hold. That makes us all pioneers for a better world! There are many who have live and died without a bit of the passion or vision we have. No, change won't happen quickly... But it *IS* happening even so! ;)

have gone vegan said in reply to Bea Elliott...

You're so welcome! :)

Yeah, I'm with you on the don't-get-too-attached-to-the-outcome mode of thinking. While that doesn't mean I don't try to spread the vegan word, ultimately I'm vegan because that's the set of values I adhere to, whether the rest of the world goes vegan with me or not. And as you said, there ARE changes happening, and certainly more of them and more quickly than even five years ago, so obviously some of us are doing something right. ;)

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Monday, December 23, 2013

what Christmas is all about

 What christmas is all about

That's some (modified) speech, snort. Have to admit that A Charlie Brown Christmas is one of my favourite shows of the season, and the one I make sure not to miss. As relevant now as it was in '65 (though hard to imagine that commercialization was as rampant back then), it offers a great message no matter what your beliefs.

Veganism, for most vegans I hope, is about fighting commodification of sentient beings. We disagree with the notion that other species (including our own) are objects for human animals to use, own or destroy. And at a time of year when consumption as celebration is all around us, it seems even more fitting to remember that consuming other animals in whatever form is wrong no matter what month we happen to be in.

It's always a good time though to put into practice what Linus (reciting the Gospel of Luke Ch2 v14) said at the end: "...and on earth peace and goodwill towards men [sic] [recte ALL]."

May peace and goodwill to all rule all of our hearts and actions.

Merry Christmas everyone! :)

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Friday, July 19, 2013

being vegan means only one thing

 Reportr

What? I can already hear you say.

Didn't I write being vegan means many things just three posts ago? Yep. But we're vegans right? Which means we're smart cookies comfortable with paradox (I have 2 more to add to the series) and contradiction. (In other words, we're Walt Whitman-esque. See the great quote Tom provided in the first comment here.)

Yes, even though we're all the things mentioned in the post above, what being vegan really boils down to is giving voice to the voiceless. In a way, you're a reporter. So, time to brush up on the Five Ws? ;)

Comments

veganelder said...

Speaking the human language for those too worthy to be reduced to such a low class communication mode...because we've turned it into the language of killers and harmers and oppressors.

I agree. :-)

have gone vegan said in reply to veganelder...

Of course after posting this I got to pondering whether other sentient beings really couldn't be heard, or whether we're just refusing to listen. Semantics maybe, but it seems to me that they're communicating pretty clearly what they don't want, but because it doesn't serve our interests, most of us don't want to hear it.

And we really do pride ourselves on our communication mode, don't we? Cats, for example, usually only meow to humans. They don't need to do it with other kitties as they can communicate just fine without it. So why is it that we view our ability to use language as something that makes us superior, whereas it could be just the opposite? ;)

Bea Elliott said...

I agree we vegans are journalists. We're all reporting the story of the silenced victims. We're all whistle blowers on the system. Sadly we're also as villanized as the others who show naked emperors. People fear truth... How do we change this while working our magic with the 5 W's? :/

have gone vegan said in reply to Bea Elliott...

I wish I knew, Bea, I really do. :(

have gone vegan said in reply to have gone vegan...

Well that was quite the lame answer!

All we can do is continue to see the truth, communicate that truth as best we can, advocate in whatever way we most excel, be an example of truth in action, and hope that everyone eventually catches on to the truth of animal use/abuse.

I am more hopeful though, because even in the last five years of being vegan it's starting to feel different. Everyday folk seem to know exactly what I mean when I use the term "vegan", and everyone seems to have a vegan friend or relative or know of someone in their vicinity who's woken up to the truth of animal ag. We really are at the beginning of a more widespread awareness, and veganism is becoming mainstream like never before. Obviously it's not moving as quickly as we'd like, but we're getting there. Of that I'm sure.

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